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evevkovacs avatar evevkovacs commented on August 14, 2024

@egawiser @janewman-pitt-edu @yymao @rmandelb Eric G./Jeff N. suggested doing a validation test based on equivalent-width (EW) distributions. However, the Galacticus output has line strengths rather than EWs and the SED supplied is probably too coarse grained to estimate EWs accurately (although it could be tried). Are there other tests based on line strengths that we could do? What applicable validation data is available?

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egawiser avatar egawiser commented on August 14, 2024

It should be feasible to validate versus the H alpha, [O II], and [O III] luminosity functions. Adam Broussard has references assembled for H alpha, has been tasked with checking for [O III], and could add [O II] to that list. Note that for our specific LSS project, getting high enough line luminosities is actually what matters (not actually high EWs), so this is an entirely acceptable validation for that purpose.

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janewman-pitt-edu avatar janewman-pitt-edu commented on August 14, 2024

Getting EWs right is a better check that you're giving the correct fluxes to the correct objects, though... coarse spectrum is probably fine for EW.

Any existing [OIII] or H alpha luminosity functions for z~1 will be for tiny areas with huge cosmic variance, so that doesn't strike me as a great option. (There is an [OII] luminosity function from DEEP2 -- IIRC Johan Comparat did that -- but the EWs are better measured in the data anyways, as they are not affected by flux calibrations).

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adam-broussard avatar adam-broussard commented on August 14, 2024

Hi all, I have recently gotten a NERSC account so that I can access the protoDC2 catalog. I'm looking at the available quantities and it looks like I can access the band magnitudes, but not the emission line strengths. How can I get these added in?

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evevkovacs avatar evevkovacs commented on August 14, 2024

These are native quantities, available in the catalog but not yet exposed in the reader. Please see https://github.com/LSSTDESC/gcr-catalogs for instructions on how to use the GCR (you need the add_quantities method) and https://portal.nersc.gov/project/lsst/descqa/v2/?run=2017-11-27_4&test=ListQuantities for a list of the native quantities (click on native_quantities.txt under proto-dc2_v2.0)

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yymao avatar yymao commented on August 14, 2024

@adam-broussard get_quantities() also accept native quantities.

@evevkovacs what's the native quantity names for the emission line strengths?

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evevkovacs avatar evevkovacs commented on August 14, 2024

@adam-broussard Examples are: (see also my comment above for helpful links)
emissionLines/diskLineLuminosity:balmerAlpha6563:rest
emissionLines/diskLineLuminosity:balmerAlpha6563:rest:contam_nitrogenII6584

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yymao avatar yymao commented on August 14, 2024

@adam-broussard @evevkovacs see usage on the updated demo notebook (search for "accessing native quantities" subsection)

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evevkovacs avatar evevkovacs commented on August 14, 2024

Thanks Yao for the quick turn-around on this.

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adam-broussard avatar adam-broussard commented on August 14, 2024

Thanks a bunch for the help so far - I have been able to access the values, but I can't figure out the units. It looks like the values for "emissionLines/totalLineLuminosity:balmerAlpha6563:rest" are around unity though. Can anyone help with what the native units are or where to track them down?

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evevkovacs avatar evevkovacs commented on August 14, 2024

@adam-broussard Sorry for the delay in replying. We will have a units attribute soon, but in the mean time the units for luminosity (AB system) are 4.4659e13 W/Hz.

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adam-broussard avatar adam-broussard commented on August 14, 2024

@evevkovacs I see that the units are L_nu - can you tell me how I could convert this to a true luminosity? I assume that the wavelength bin size on the SED should work as a differential nu to integrate it, and if so what is it? Thank you again!

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adam-broussard avatar adam-broussard commented on August 14, 2024

Hi guys I hope everyone had a good winter break. I wanted to check in again now that we're on the other side of the new year. @evevkovacs @abensonca can you point me in the right direction for converting the emission lines from L_nu to L? Thanks in advance.

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abensonca avatar abensonca commented on August 14, 2024

For the emission lines the quantities are already L, not L_nu. Eve's comment is for broad-band stellar continuum luminosities (which are L_nu in units of 4.4659e13 W/Hz). The emission lines are in units of Solar luminosities (3.839e26 W). So, to get equivalent widths you should just need to convert the continuum L_nu to L_lambda, and then take the ratio.

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adam-broussard avatar adam-broussard commented on August 14, 2024

Great, thanks for the quick response!

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rmandelb avatar rmandelb commented on August 14, 2024

@adam-broussard - have you been able to successfully access the emission line data? If you are actively working on this, perhaps you could summarize the status of what you are doing? In the issue page, I have not yet seen a concrete suggestion for how the validation test will be carried out, what validation dataset will be used, etc.

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adam-broussard avatar adam-broussard commented on August 14, 2024

Hi @rmandelb ! I apologize for the late response - I was preoccupied with a proposal which was due at the end of last week and had to stop work on this project for a bit. We have some ideas of plotting the equivalent width distribution and comparing to observations, but nothing is solidly formed just yet. Give me a few days this week to get everything in a row and I'll report back in by Thursday with an update and a more concrete plan.

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adam-broussard avatar adam-broussard commented on August 14, 2024

@evevkovacs Eric emailed me to say that I could pull the SED data from the GCR, and that they are named according to 'SED_l1_l2' where l1 and l2 are the starting and ending wavelengths respectively. I am seeing values such as 'sed_1000_246' - is it that this is instead the starting wavelength and the width (or something similar)? Also, can you tell me what the units are on these SED fluxes? Thanks!

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evevkovacs avatar evevkovacs commented on August 14, 2024

@adam-broussard l2 is the width of the tophat filter, not the ending wavelength.
For units see Andrew Benson's comment above: "The emission lines are in units of Solar luminosities (3.839e26 W). So, to get equivalent widths you should just need to convert the continuum L_nu to L_lambda, and then take the ratio."

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egawiser avatar egawiser commented on August 14, 2024

@evevkovacs great - does that make l1 the central wavelength of the tophat filter, or was I correct that it's the starting wavelength? And I think Adam was asking what kind of L_nu units the continuum values are in.

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yymao avatar yymao commented on August 14, 2024

it's the start and width.

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abensonca avatar abensonca commented on August 14, 2024

L_nu is in units of 4.4659e13 W/Hz

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egawiser avatar egawiser commented on August 14, 2024

Awesome. Thank you all!

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adam-broussard avatar adam-broussard commented on August 14, 2024

That is indeed what I was looking for - thank you for the clarificaiton, Eric! It is also useful to know that these are L_nu rather than F_nu as I probably would have assumed that they were fluxes naively. I will work on this and have an equivalent width distribution posted tonight or tomorrow morning.

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adam-broussard avatar adam-broussard commented on August 14, 2024

Here is what I have found for the equivalent width distribution around a redshift of 1 (although I can do it for others). I am still searching out a paper which plots the equivalent width distribution for some redshift range. The closest I have been able to find is Marmo-Queralto et al. (2016) which deals with the average H-alpha equivalent width as a function of redshift.
ew_dist

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evevkovacs avatar evevkovacs commented on August 14, 2024

This is a great start. Can you make the same plot for protoDC2 (eg pick z> .9) for comparison?

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adam-broussard avatar adam-broussard commented on August 14, 2024

I did so, and it looks almost identical:

ew_dist_zgt1

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janewman-pitt-edu avatar janewman-pitt-edu commented on August 14, 2024

I think there's ~0% chance [OIII] should generally be as strong as H alpha. The plot looks suspicious to me... E.g. in Moustakas et al. 2005, H beta fluxes are typical ~1/3 as large as H alpha, and [OIII]/H beta ratios span ~1/3 to 3x .

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egawiser avatar egawiser commented on August 14, 2024

@janewman-pitt-edu thanks for processing this through your well-trained neural network! I think the paper you mean is this one? http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2006ApJ...642..775M That's low-redshift but does claim agreement with some z=1 observations. We know that [O III] gets much stronger at high redshift vs. [O II], and that should means it gets somewhat stronger vs. Ha, as reflected in this z=1 plot. In any case, hopefully @adam-broussard can generate the same plots for z=0 (say z<0.2) and z=0.5, where there's more literature to compare with.

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janewman-pitt-edu avatar janewman-pitt-edu commented on August 14, 2024

There's not much evolution in BPT diagrams by z~1 (especially for L* galaxies) -- things shift to lower metallicity at higher redshifts than that (the [OII] EW distribution is pretty invariant from redshift at z=0.8-1.4 as I recall, by the way).

I'd suggest looking at histograms of [OIII]/H alpha, [OIII]/H beta, and [OIII]/[OII]; that should show immediately if [OIII] is too tied to H alpha, for instance.

The simulations are somewhat incomplete at z<0.2, so z~0.5 would be probably a better place to do the comparison.

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janewman-pitt-edu avatar janewman-pitt-edu commented on August 14, 2024

PS Yes, that's the right paper. I found it via arxiv where the date was 2005.

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janewman-pitt-edu avatar janewman-pitt-edu commented on August 14, 2024

In case it's helpful, I've compiled plots for the [OII]/[OIII]/H beta flux ratios for DEEP2 galaxies (there's a limited redshift range where we can get all of these lines), as well as the [OII] EW distribution. I've produced plots of the ratios, etc. as a function of z (where dependence is weak and may just be due to the R=24.1 limit corresponding to more luminous objects at higher redshifts), as well as histograms. All of these are quantities you should be able to compare against (with the same R=24.1 cut applied).

o3hb_vs_z
o3o2_hist
o3o2_vs_z
o2ew_hist
o2ew_vs_z
o3hb_hist

(PS I'm applying a 3 sigma detection cut in [OII] EW for the plots with [OII], or in H beta EW for the [OIII]/Hb ratio).

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adam-broussard avatar adam-broussard commented on August 14, 2024

I have generated the plot for z = 0.5 but unfortunately I am getting the same results. I have also included a histogram showing the distribution of different equivalent width ratios, which seems to show that [OIII]/[OII] and H-alpha/[OII] EW is approximately 10, but H-alpha/[OIII] EW is approximately 1.

ew_dist_z0 5

ew_frac_z0 5

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janewman-pitt-edu avatar janewman-pitt-edu commented on August 14, 2024

Yeah, that's definitely not right. [OIII] should generally be less than [OII], not 10x higher, based on the real data.

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yymao avatar yymao commented on August 14, 2024

@adam-broussard I see that you have made much progress on this. Do you think it is useful to create a test in DESCQA, basically porting what you have done into the framework? I can offer help, of course.

Also, how should we validate the results? @janewman-pitt-edu mentioned some potential validation data from DEEP2. Should we use them to compare with the catalog result when we implement this test in DESCQA? @egawiser @adam-broussard.

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adam-broussard avatar adam-broussard commented on August 14, 2024

@yymao Eric and I talked today and we think it would be a good idea to put this in DESCQA. We discussed some possible tests and came up with:

  1. Fitting the exponential decline on the right side of the equivalent width distribution
  2. The ratio of primary and secondary modes (essentially the modes of equivalent widths of the star forming vs quiescent population)
  3. The equivalent width of the mode

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adam-broussard avatar adam-broussard commented on August 14, 2024

@janewman-pitt-edu could you send me the data you used to generate those example plots? That way I can easily compare between the data and protoDC2 as well as potentially use them for the tests I outlined above.

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yymao avatar yymao commented on August 14, 2024

@adam-broussard sounds like a good plan. Let me know how I can help you putting this test into the framework!

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janewman-pitt-edu avatar janewman-pitt-edu commented on August 14, 2024

Sure, send me a direct email to [email protected] and I can reply to it with files.

Best,

Jeff

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