Comments (6)
Hey, @lampardlamps!
The amount of gWei you mentioned (e.g. 138 gWei) is the amount of small fractions of ETH people pay to get their transaction's data into the Ethereum cluster. So the gas price we can see, for example, on Etherscan, is a median amount of gWei people currently pay to miners according to the overall Ethereum cluster transaction processing supply/demand balance. So, taking out of consideration these supply/demand fluctuations, Mina's verification will cost something like 3,5m gas (some gWei), which is 0.0035 ETH (hope I didn't screw up with zeroes - you can always check that number with, for example, https://gwei.io).
This is much more than the average transaction processing cost on Ethereum, but much better than the straightforward way of verifying Mina's state proof on EVM.
We actually think, that this cost is going to be reduced even more (not dramatically, but anyway) because of the circuit optimizations we've figured out during the implementation. Instead of putting only a part of Pickles proof under the FRI-alike proof, we've put the whole Pickles proof verification ((including Poseidon parts alike computations etc)) under the FRI-alike proof.
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@nemothenoone thank you very much for your reply! My confusion was that you seem to use 'gas' and 'gwei' interchangeably, but to my limited understanding, they should not be? The computation cost on Ethereum is marked as gas, but for each gas, you need to pay a gas price (unit: gwei/gas), and the two multiplied together gives the ETH amount you need to pay. For example, a simple ETH transfer is 21,000 gas, if using gas price of 100 gwei/gas, then the cost is 2.1M gwei = 0.0021 ETH = $8USD; when the net work is congested, the tranfer fee in gas is still 21,000 gas, but the gas price rises considerably, hiking up the price in ETH or USD you pay to miners.
In this Mina verification case, since you're talking about all the computation cost, I was expecting that the 3.5M number was in the unit of gas, and the ETH to pay should be 3.5M * gas price, so at the moment in the 0.4ETH ball park.
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@lampardlamps Oh, now I got what you're talking about. You're right, using gWei as gas and vice versa is not what one should do. I guess we gotta remove that from the demo page of ours to avoid further confusion.
Yes, a single verification cost theoretical estimation is somewhere around 3.5m gas. Not gWei, yes. But, please notice, that this is a cost estimation not for a single transaction, but for the whole state verification (all the transactions submitted to Mina since the last state proof was submitted to Ethereum). It is only required to verify state proof once to get all the transactions it contains confirmed on Ethereum side. So in case we're talking about per-transaction cost - it is definitely much lower (depending on the amount of transactions being confirmed with a single state proof verification).
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Thanks @nemothenoone. Great! Yes, I understand it's the whole state verification, and it's totally awesome! Can I ask - the Solana light client verifier that you guys are developing (which costs ~2M gas), is it also a whole-state verification?
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@lampardlamps Solana's light client state verification is about proving and verifying only some part of a state (crucial one, which contains validators signatures and replication packet hash). So the security of such method is a little bit lower since it is not possible (for now, we're working on it) to verify the whole Solana (and others) state.
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Related Issues (20)
- Test our Mina pipeline and their own zk App guide
- Fix evm-placeholder-verification npm package version
- e2e-demo fixes
- Move on to Lorem Ipsum-based implementation
- Make necessary changes after the class Expression replaces non_linear_combination in zk.
- Public input processing
- Update to new input format
- Update account inclusion proof
- Plonk_variable now accepts AssigmentType as template parameter, branch 55-two-blueprints
- Circuits parameters are different for tests and tasks
- Update new versions of hardhat-deploy HOT 1
- Transfer verifier contracts from Proof Market repo
- Maintain code in branch 55, make changes that are required due to changes in zk repo.
- M1/M2 chipsets compatibility with older npm versions
- Update error messages in get_mina_state.py
- Return the dummy keys to /examples/mina-zk-app HOT 1
- Transaction gas limit exceeds block gas limit for our own examples HOT 3
- Conflicted packages
- Ledger circuits params update
- Remove duplicated interfaces for verifiers
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